Catching Up With Ernie MacLean, by Ken MacIsaac

Anyone who has been around the Maritime motorsports scene for any length of time either knows of or knows, Ernie MacLean, sometimes called the “godfather” of Maritime motorsports. He and his wife Winona have worked together in motorsports for over 50 years, building and running River Glade Speedway (just outside Moncton, NB) during which time they founded the iconic River Glade International and also ran Riverside Speedway for a short time.

After selling River Glade they took the Maritime Motorsports Hall of Fame under their wing and built it into what it is today. Ernie has been inducted into the Canadian Motorsports Hall of Fame, and Ernie & Winona were inducted together into the Maritime Motorsports Hall of Fame.

Ken MacIsaac (KM) recently caught up with Ernie (E) and captured this incredible interview which documents a big part of Maritime motorsports history – fitting to be published just a few days before the 55th running of the River Glade International this weekend at Petty International Raceway.

Ken’s interview is followed by a great photo gallery showing many memorable moments from Ernie’s life in motorsports.

KM – It’s been years since we sat down and had a chat about racing and River Glade Speedway.  You and Winona have so many great stories over the years.   Tell me about the early days, before you built River Glade Speedway? 

E – Winona and I had moved to Toronto in the mid-50s. I got a job at a garage right away.  I worked as an apprentice mechanic for a bit and eventually got my license.  Then I leased a Fina station up there. It was around that time that I met Jim Hallahan. Jim was selling Herbrand Tools at the time, and he’d come into my garage and I’d buy my tools from him and we’d chat about the races. I would go to Pinecrest Speedway every week and I loved it. That was around 1957. Jim was racing at Pinecrest at the time too. Anyway, one day Jim said, “I’ve got the car for you”. It was an old Jalopy class car. Jim said, “it would be a good starter car for you, why don’t you try it?”. So I did. I bought the old thing and raced it at Pinecrest, Flamboro, Sutton Speedway, and the CNE. I never really did much with it. I couldn’t drive it anyway. But I enjoyed it.

KM – So after a few years up there, you decided to move back home?

E – I wanted to move back and build a speedway. I came back in 1963 on holidays. I was scouting around at that time. I went to the drag races in Scoudouc and I couldn’t believe it. There were people lined up as far as you could see. All these people watching 2 cars go in a straight line. I thought to myself “if they have this many people watching 2 cars go down a strip, imagine how many I could get with 24 cars going in a circle.”  So Winona and I talked about it. We were going to sell our house in Ontario, and move down here and buy an old farm and build a race track. 

KM – So, 1964 you moved back to New Brunswick?

E – Yes. We sold our home in Toronto, and I sold my stock car to Gerry Wheaton which was his very first race car. I gave up my job and we packed everything we had in a truck and drove down. We bought a farm from Bessie Goggin and that’s where we built River Glade Speedway. But one of the first obstacles I had when trying to buy the property was financing. I went to several banks in the area, and most of them said the same thing to me, “you don’t have a job, and you want to build a stock car track, and there are no stock cars in the area to race?”.   They all thought I was insane. But I had enough money saved for a down payment, and I ended up buying the old farm. Looking back, the banks didn’t want to give me a loan back then, but once we got established, and paved the track, the banks couldn’t do enough for me.

KM – You opened the track the same year you bought it, so you didn’t have a lot of time to build it?

E – I came down that year at Easter and talked to a bunch of people about my plans. It was all positive. We bought the property in May, and we moved the family and all our stuff down the long weekend.  But I started right away on the track. When I was negotiating to buy the property, there was an old  Farmall tractor in the back yard that I noticed.  I said, “I’ll buy the farm, but the tractor has to go with it”.   They said, “oh no, the tractor isn’t part of the deal”.  I said, “well, we don’t have a deal then”. I knew exactly what I wanted to do with the tractor. Anyway, this went back and forth a few times, and I eventually got the tractor with the farm. 

KM – I assume you wanted that tractor to clear the land for the track?

E –  Yes, and for clearing other parts of the property. So  I noticed a guy in the neighborhood with a big bulldozer and he was clearing land on the local farms. I stopped at his place and introduced myself to him. I said “I bought the old farm up the road, and I’m going to buy some horses to run out in the back. Wondering if you could bulldoze that area for me?” He said, “Sure, I’ll do that for you?”

KM – Horses?

E – Well I had to say it was for horses. The neighborhood was all farm properties and he certainly wouldn’t have cleared it for me if I told him I was building a stock car track. So I staked it out. A quarter-mile in length, just as it is today. He came and cleared it all out for me. Then, I got an old grader, and boy was it old. It was the kind you had to stand on and operate behind a tractor. So I hooked it up to the Farmall tractor, and Winona drove that while I operated the grader. Oh, and Winona was pregnant at the time too. We went around and around making the track. I hauled more gravel in and more fill in. Kept grading it and building it up. It was slowly turning into a race track.

KM – Was there just a big field behind the farmhouse? 

E – Yes, and there was a huge manure pile behind the barn and it had to be cleaned up. My brother in law used the truck that we hauled our furniture down from Ontario, to haul the manure away.

KM – Did you have a job at this time too?

E – I was working at Drury’s Transport in Petitcodiac. I’d work there during the day then come home and work all night on the track.

KM – What about cars? Were there other tracks in the area to draw cars from?

E – No. There was no stock car racing in New Brunswick at that time. There were a bunch of little dirt tracks running in Nova Scotia at the time, but nothing in New Brunswick. So we had to have meetings and talk to people to get them to build cars. There was a sports announcer at CKCW in Moncton by the name of Earle Ross. We told him we’d have a year-end trophy with his name on it if he could help us with the advertising. He was pretty popular on the radio back then, and we’d send him the race results and he’d read them all week. We were getting free advertising in exchange for having his name on the trophy at the end of the year.

KM –  So you got the track built. Do you remember the opening day in ’64?

E – It was in August. I think our records showed around 314 people opening day. It doesn’t sound like much, but to us that day it was a lot.  I remember the night before, I was up all night putting chloride down on the track, trying to keep the dust down. We had a good car count for the first race. We started out as dirt that first year, but my aim was to pave it. We had no grandstands in ’64 either. We just had posts and cables all around the track, not even a concrete wall.  Raymond Sears won the very first race that day. We ran well into the fall that year. Ray Carson was our very first points champion that year.

KM – So in ’65, you paved it?

E – Yes. We just ran out of time and money in ’64 to do it. Modern Construction paved the track for us. My stepfather, Clarence MacEachern, came down from Ontario that year and put together the grandstands for us. They could seat 300 people. We built canteens, the tower, ticket booths, and washrooms. We moved the announcing system from the infield to the tower. Another thing I wanted was full-bodied late model stock cars. That’s what they ran at Pinecrest Speedway. I remember telling the boys at the meetings that I wanted that type of car. Donnie Beers said, “I’m not putting fenders on my car, because they’ll only tear them off”. I said, “well you’re not racing then”.  Donnie was determined he wasn’t putting fenders on his car. But  I remember the first race, he showed up with his car all painted up. It was a beautiful looking car, and he had the front fenders on too. And I remember when we had just laid the pavement down, Tom McCluskey and Buddy Langille from Saint John were waiting outside the pit entrance. People were anxious to run on pavement.

KM – And you held your very first International in 1965.

E –  I knew all the guys who raced in Ontario, so I contacted a lot of them to see if they’d come down. Those early Internationals had quite a few guys from Ontario. And of course, they all knew Jim Hallahan. In fact, I tried to get Jim Hallahan to go partners with me on the track, and he almost did. Jim was running a Studebaker dealership at the time in Ontario. I remember asking him about it and he said, “No, I better stay with this dealership”. Anyway, when I was planning to have this big race (International), I called Jim up and said: “tell the guys I’ll give them $75 tow money to come down and race”. Can you imagine? Toronto to Moncton? That would be an insult today. But a few came down. John Shirtliff came down and he brought his second car with him. Don Biederman drove back up car in the International but he was just starting out back then and didn’t do anything. He finished way back.  Those Ontario guys who came down in those early years helped us a lot.  Their knowledge was invaluable. And they helped set up a lot of cars.  The crowd we had at that first one was incredible. The stands were full, and they were at least two deep standing around the entire track. I was nervous that day. There had to be 10-thousand people there. It was one of the biggest days we ever had. John Shirtliff won the International that day. And I remember Caleb Dunn won the points that year too. It was the Laine’s Bakery Trophy.

KM – It sounds like the track was a hit anyway, but having such a successful first International race must’ve made you feel like you made the right decision in building a track?

E – It really did. And it certainly bailed us out financially. We had no money starting out. I sold our house up there and spent the money from it moving down here and buying the farm. But we did all the work ourselves. After that International, we paid everyone we owed. The hydro, the power, everyone. Clarence Carter in Riverview was very good to me. He’d drop a dozer and truck off and say “just use it, tell me when you’re done”. Clarence wired the whole place back then, put in poles.   I’d say “what do I owe you, Clarence?”. He’d say “I’ll get you another time”. 

KM – Were you still working at the transport company at this time?

E – I think I got fired…The last week I was working there, I only worked two days. I was spending all my time building the track. My boss Les Drury said to me “that race track seems to be more important than your job”. I said, “if I can get that race track going, I’ll make more there for one race than I’ll make here for a year”. He said, “you better go home and tend to that race track”…I tell everyone “I don’t know if I got fired or let go, or what”. I didn’t really mind at the time, because my priority was getting the track opened. That following weekend we opened the track, and I never looked back.

KM – With the big crowds you were getting back then, you decided to build more grandstands?

E – Oh yes. We opened in ‘65 with the first set of grandstands that went from turn four to the flag stand. I said, “if I can fill that all year, I’ll be happy”. And I did too. They were standing three deep all along the fence. So I built more grandstands in ‘66.  I built another set that went to turn one. And they were still standing two deep in spots, so I built another set that went all the way to turn two. Put in a concrete wall that year too. Hallahan won the International in ’66, and I think we even had more people that year. Went Marshall won the points championship that year. He died just last year. 

KM – The ’60s were such a booming era for stock car racing. Do you remember your attendance figures back then?

E – We were averaging anywhere between one and four thousand a race meet. We would be disappointed if we didn’t get three thousand.  We’d have as many as 80 cars in the pits.

KM – What about the rules back then?

E – We had a good set of rules. The cars had to have a full roll cage and full bodies. If a fender came off, it had to be replaced. Fire extinguishers, lap belts, and shoulder harnesses. If any of the cars didn’t have that stuff, they didn’t race.

KM – Jerry Campbell, who built Petty Raceway, came on as a partner with you.  How did that come about?

E –  Jerry is originally from Salisbury, but we knew each other in Ontario.  Jerry was living up there at the time. We both had stock cars up there.   He knew I was moving home to build a race track, and we talked about it back then. I was looking for someone to be partners with me at the start. So he eventually moved back here and became my partner. That was in 1965.

KM – That partnership didn’t last though.

E – No. It’s always hard when you have a partner because you both have different ideas. I bought him out around 1974.

KM – Your ‘International’ race was probably the most popular race in the Maritimes back then, and it still is very popular today. Do you remember those races back in the day?

E – I remember most of them. And I’m glad they kept it going. Adelard Cormier won it in ’67 after it was postponed a week. Hallahan won his second one in ’68 with Biederman right behind him. Those early races were 75 lappers, but in 1969 I made it a 100 lapper. Biederman won it that year.

KM – You had one of the most recognizable flagmen in the Maritimes back then?

E – Ken Brace. Ken was always around the track back then and he even tried racing himself. I had a flagman at the time but I ended up firing him.  I went to Ken and said, “how about flagging for me?”. That was around ’66 I think. He was our flagmen for years, even after I sold the track.

KM – I always found him very colorful.  He’d crouch down on the track as the cars were coming to the green, then jump up and wave the flag.

E – That finally caught up with him. The only race that Winona and I  ever missed, was the night he got hit by a car. We were in Labrador for a 50^th-anniversary party. I called the track to see how things were going.   My daughter Terry answered the phone in the pits. What I didn’t know when I called was, Ken had just gotten hit only minutes before. I said, “how’s everything going Terry?”. She said, “uh, not too bad”.  I could tell right away something was wrong. I said, “what’s going on Terry?”. She said, “Ken Brace just got hit by a car”. He was on the track about to wave the green flag, and Ken MacKenzie pulled out and his bumper clipped Ken in the leg. He just wasn’t fast enough to run back to the opening in the wall. It took a piece of meat out of his leg, but it didn’t break a bone. After that happened, I said, “that’s enough of that, you’re getting up on the starter stand.” So after that, Ken got up on the stand and flagged from there. That was the first time neither one of us were at the track.

KM – When I was a kid, my parents would vacation in Moncton in August.  Dad would take us to River Glade Speedway. Caleb Dunn and Adelard Cormier were the top guys and were my two of my favorites.

E – They were two of the very best, that’s for sure. I’ll tell you an early Caleb story. I disqualified him one time because he was taking out too many cars. I threw him out for the whole year. He was wild at me. I had more phone calls from people wanting him back. I’d tell them all…“He can come back in one year”. I stood my ground. So it was coming up to the International time the next year. About halfway through the afternoon of the race, along comes Caleb through the pits with his stock car. And I never had any more trouble with him after that. In fact, we became very good friends after that.

KM – Didn’t Herman Berry Sr. flag for you too?

E –  Yes. The very first meeting I had in 1964 was at the Legion in downtown Moncton. Herman and I spent half the night talking outside after the meeting. We got to know each other pretty good. Herman worked at Laine’s Bakery back then, which was our very first points sponsor. Anyway, Herman was our flagman the first year.  He always stood on the inside of the track to flag. I would say to him… “Herman, you should stand on the outside of the track because it’s safer.” But he’d always say…“I’m good here, and I can see all the action.”.  Back then, the flagman’s job was also to count laps.  Anyway, there was one race that I thought was lasting a little too long. I crossed over the track to see Herman during a caution and said: “how many laps are gone, Herman?”  He said, “I don’t know, but what a good race, isn’t it?” I said, “Yes, but the race is over Herman.” It went more laps than it should’ve. So I said, “Herman, I don’t think flagging is for you”.  So I took him over to the pits to line up cars. He was doing that for a while. But one time, I walked over to the pits and said “Where the heck is Herman?   I need cars lined up for the next race.” Anyway, in comes Herman off the track. He was driving an old stock car. I said, “Herman, you can’t be racing and lining up cars at the same time”. He said “well, the guy needed someone to drive it in that last race. But I’m ok now. I’ll finish lining them up”.  So that didn’t last, and I had to get someone else to line up the cars. Herman ended up driving a stock car for Calvin Sanderson. But he was a pretty good fella and we were great friends.

KM – Frank Fraser raced at River Glade an awful lot over the years?

E – He sure did. When Frank showed up, he was the car to beat. And the fans either cheered for him or booed him. I remember in 1975 he raced here full time. He won 14 features that year as well as the International, and the points championship.

KM – Did you repave the track when you owned it?

E – No. In 1969 the pavement was breaking up bad down the backstretch and going into the turns. So I paved both turns and partway down the backstretch. But Pat Rodgers paved the whole track after he bought it from me.

KM – In the late ’60s, McEwen’s Speedway opened up near Moncton.  Did that affect your car counts or crowds?

E – I didn’t see them as competition for me since they ran on a different night. In fact, it helped my car count. But Jerry (Campbell) didn’t like seeing our drivers run at McEwen’s. It made no difference to me. We still got our big crowds, and McEwen’s got theirs. MacEwen’s was on the doorstep of Moncton out in Irishtown. Whereas we were out in River Glade. It worked well for both of us.

KM – You also ran several other tracks in the Maritimes?

E – Some of the tracks just needed our help, and some of them I actually leased. There were cars coming out of these tracks that raced at River Glade Speedway, so it was beneficial for me as well.

KM – Tell me about Brookside Speedway?

E –   Smut Norman ran the track. He had an asphalt plant right there.  He took the old pit he had and made a race track out of it. He died, and the racers came to us and asked if we’d run it. There was a Wheaton fellow who flagged or announced there and he was a good friend of Smut Norman’s. He approached us to run it. We ran that in the mid-’70s. It’s a subdivision now I believe.

KM – Miramichi, and Bathurst?

E –  Danny’s Speed Bowl in Bathurst was a nice track. It was a 1/4 mile similar to ours. But we didn’t do much up there. It was too far away to draw cars from down here. We only ran it for a short time. It was a long haul back then. We ran Miramichi Speedway for a while. It was a pretty good track too, but the car counts just didn’t pick up.

KM – Havre Boucher Speedway near the Canso Causeway?

E –  Bill Digdon started the track in ‘67. He got it almost half-built when he came to me. He wanted to buy a stock car I had. I was building a ‘55 Ford at the time. Anyway, we got to talking, and he asked me if I’d help him run the track. We’d race Saturday night at River Glade Speedway,  then pack up the car and leave during the night to get to Havre Boucher in the morning. We took the old highway down, or as I used to call it ..running the old Sunrise Trail. There was no Trans Canada at the time. 

KM – Rollie MacDonald ran there quite a bit back then?

E –  When I traveled down on the old highway, I’d go through Pictou on my way to the track. There was a BA service station near where his truck garage is now. I noticed there was a ’57 Chev stock car parked beside it. I spotted that and pulled in. Rollie was running the service station at the time. We got to talking, and he said he was racing at Fraser’s Mountain near New Glasgow. I convinced him to run down at Havre Boucher. Rollie was one of the top dogs back then. He had tons of power. So one day, Bobby Allen and Danny Campbell showed up at the track. They were two of the best from Fraser’s Mountain, and fast too.   So the three of them were running hard down the front stretch in one race. Rollie went in too deep and just kept going down over the bank in turn 1. He lodged his car between two birch trees. We had to use Bill Digdon’s crane truck to get Rollie’s car out.  

KM – Would the River Glade drivers come down to race there?

E – I brought some cars down to race a few times. Donnie Beers was driving for AutoHaulaway at the time, and he brought a tractor-trailer full of cars down one Sunday. A lot of the local guys who raced at Havre Boucher bought Moncton cars. 

KM – You ran Havre Boucher Speedway for several years?

E – I told Bill when I came aboard that I’d only be staying for a short time. He needed help in getting the track going, and I thought it would be a good idea as well. I always felt that the more tracks that are operating, the more cars you get at other tracks. Anyway, we were there for three years, then I sold out to Bill. It was just too hard. Too much traveling each week. But we did enjoy running that track and made some money too.

KM – Riverside Speedway is where I used to see you a lot in the ’80s.

E – That’s right. We took that track over and did well. When I got involved there, it was closed at the time. I went to John Chisholm to see if we could lease it. John said ‘take it’. He said ‘why don’t you buy it?”. I said, “I’ve got my own track John, and it’s for sale too”. So I ended up leasing it from him. We had the Dukes Of Hazard class of cars, which were so popular across the Maritimes at that time. Car counts were soaring, and the stands were full. But I also had some good help with me there. Ernie Ledwidge and his crew were excellent. They looked after everything for me back then.

KM – I remember when Tom Curley’s NASCAR North Tour came there in 1985. What an incredible crowd!

E – I remember buying a lot of french fries for that race. Winona was in the canteen cooking away, and about halfway through the race, I said to John Chisholm “I think I’m gonna run out of french fries”. John said, “that’s not possible”.  I said, “we need another five boxes”. John got me five more, and away we went. It was one of the biggest crowds we ever had. Tom Curley was good to deal with but he wanted to be paid ahead of time. I understood that, as it was a big expense to bring those guys up here. I went to John Chisholm and told him what they wanted to come up and race. John wrote a cheque and said, “send it to him”.  That’s the kind of relationship we had with John. I paid him back the day after the race. 

KM – I always thought that River Glade Speedway had some of the sharpest and fastest 4 cylinder cars around.  

E – We were just trying to appeal to the fans and new drivers. They put on some good racing over the years. I had a six-cylinder class as well.   That was popular for a few years.

KM – You mentioned the Dukes Of Hazard class.  That was another great era for stock car racing in the Maritimes.

E –  I started running that class in the early ’80s at River Glade. Right around that time, I used to put on Endurance races twice a year. It was cheap and easy to get involved. Grab an old car, gear it up a little, and race 200 laps. We paid very well for the winner and paid back to the fifth spot. I remember one time we had 40 cars on the track. The entire racing surface was in motion. It was quite a sight. First place was just behind the last place getting ready to lap him. The only rule I had was, if you spun out and couldn’t get going, stay there until we got to you. We had a few tow trucks in the infield, and they’d hook onto them and drag them off the track. After the Endurance races were over, sometimes we’d have a demolition derby with the beat-up ones. The guys that were really good, I’d say “why don’t you put a cage in it, and come back and race with the Dukes Of Hazzard class”. We got a lot of new drivers running that Dukes class who came from Enduro racing. Originally, we had the Dukes class going counter-clockwise because we didn’t want them playing with the suspension. It was a great class, and a great time in racing. Each car would bring a bunch of fans in the grandstands. I saw us have 100 cars in the pits at one time.

KM – A lot of tracks in the ’70s would bring in attractions, such as the Hell Drivers and Benny Koske The Human Bomb. But you also brought up the Super Modifieds from New England?

E – We were open to giving anything a chance. We had the Super Modifieds up to race quite a bit. Ken Smith and Russ Conway from Star Speedway and Lee Speedway in New Hampshire were our contacts. We got to know the guys quite a bit. One spring, we drove down to Lee Speedway to meet with them and see if they’d come up here and put on a show. We stopped at a service station in the area to ask them where the race track was. The guy said, “it’s just up the road, but no one will be there because they’re snowed out”. I said “ok, I’m looking to meet with the owners”. The guy said, “well, they’re just up the road a bit more and I’ll give you directions”. But he was snickering as he was telling me that.  Then he said, “they run a nudist colony too”. I said, “Is that right?” I was laughing when he said that. I said, “well there shouldn’t be too many of them running around naked with this snow falling”. Anyway, I got back in the car and said to Winona “well, we’re going to a nudist colony, so we’re going to have to take our clothes off”. Winona said, “I’m not going in there!”. I said, “but we have to”.  Winona wasn’t having anything to do with that, but we both had a good laugh.

KM – But those guys really did run a nudist colony up the road from Lee?

E – Oh yes, in fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s still going today.  Anyway, we ended up meeting Ken Smith at the track instead. We had a really good meeting and agreed to bring the super modifieds up to River Glade. So I was looking for a super modified to take pictures of so I could advertise the race. Ken Smith said, “well, there’s none at the track right now, but my son is up at the nudist camp, and he has one”. So he gave us directions, and we drove to the camp. You had to press a button outside the gate and identify yourself. I guess it was a pretty well run and secure nudist camp. Anyway, we got in and found the super modified. Met Ken’s son, asked questions, took pics. Those guys came up four or five times over the years and always put on a good show. They were good to deal with. Winona always put on a party for the teams after the races too. She made lots of food for them. One time, she was sick and didn’t prepare anything. Ken Smith said, “I’ll pay for food if Winona will prepare it”. Winona said, “no-no, we’ll pay for it and I’ll make it”. She still wasn’t feeling well, but she made a big meal for them all. 

KM – Those guys will never forget your hospitality.

E – They really appreciated it. I remember one time, Ken, Russ and I stayed up all night talking and telling stories and drinking beer after the race. I was working at a truck place at that time, and I didn’t get into work until later in the morning. Wasn’t feeling the best at all. But I wasn’t there long before I had to go back home.

KM – You seemed to have a good relationship with Tom Curley back then too. He brought his ACT Tour to your track, along with the NASCAR North guys?

E – He was a businessman for sure. In 1984, he came up to see us about having a NASCAR North race at River Glade Speedway. It was odd though, he came up the day before Christmas. We made a deal, and I had to pay him up front. When his ACT tour came back in 89, I didn’t have to pay him up front. I had developed a good relationship with him.   A driver who always stood out with me from that group was Jean-Paul Cabana. He put on a heck of a show.  

KM – In 1985, you were voted the promotor of the year. Tell me about that?

E – What an honor that was. It was the Canadian Promotor Of The Year award. It was based on the 1984 season. But it was for all of motorsports, not just stock car racing. 

KM – One of the most talked-about events over the years at River Glade Speedway had to be the appearance of Dale Earnhardt in 1988.  Tell me about that?

E – I wanted to bring in a NASCAR driver that year. I had a contact with NASCAR and arranged to get Bobby Allison to come up. Bobby had won the Daytona 500 that year and I had him all signed up. The deal was, I’d have to pay him as soon as he stepped off the plane in Moncton, regardless of the weather. Anyway, Bobby had that bad accident at Pocono that summer. They kept telling me “oh he’s going to be all right, don’t worry”. But he wasn’t going to be alright. Then they started calling me trying to replace him. They said, “how about we send his brother Donnie Allison up to the race?”. I said, “no, that’s no good”. They phoned me back and said, “how about if we send Dale Earnhardt”. I said, “geez, I don’t know…”.But under my breath, I was like “Wow…Dale Earnhardt!!!  Really??” So I said “Ok.” But back then, people wouldn’t believe us when we announced he was coming. 

KM – Tell me about that day?

E – We had a really good crowd that day too, even though it rained. Dale brought his wife Teresa and his manager. Teresa was pregnant at the time too. I asked him on the way in from the airport, “what do you want to do first? Do you want to go out and practice?” He said, “Why, do you think I need it?” I said “Well, probably. This isn’t a NASCAR car, it’s an old stock car”. He said, “I’m used to driving them old cars.”   Anyway, he said, “I’ll go and sign some autographs first.” 

KM – He was good with the fans too?

E – He was. I set up a table for him, and he met the fans, took pictures with them. 

KM – So he didn’t practice the car at all?

E – No. We had my son Billy’s car ready for him to drive. We worked on it all week, fine-tuning it for him. We put a new gear shift in it. But I forgot to tell him about it before he got in it. The low gear was up where reverse normally is. Anyway, he got out on the track and rammed it up into where second normally would be, and it was in reverse. Around he went. He came back in the pits and said: “who put the gear shift in this car?”. I said, “I did”. He said, “don’t you know how to put a shifter in a car?” I said “yes but normally we have a pair of rods for the shifter, so I wanted a nice gear shift for you to drive”. He said, “I’m used to them old rods, why didn’t you leave them there?”…He was really down to earth.  And then, during the race one of the rear leaf springs flipped over, and it was sticking up in the air. Roy Greenlaw built the car, and he was there that day. Roy was going to flip it back down once he pitted. So Dale eventually pitted and Roy got under the car. Then Dale hollered “what’s he doing?” I said, “he’s gonna flip that leaf spring over”. Dale said, “leave it alone, it’s working great”.  So he went back out, driving in and out of traffic like nothing. 

KM – Did you get the race in, or did it start to rain?

E – It started to rain about halfway through it. We had to stop and wait it out. But they were afraid they were going to get fogged in at the airport, so they had to leave before it was over. I understood that, but we had a big reception planned for them after the race which was too bad they couldn’t stay.  Dale and Childress had a big meeting with General Motors the next morning, so they wanted to get out in case the weather got worse. I had rooms for them all at the Delta too.

KM – Sounded like he had a good time that day, and I’m sure he never forgot that.

E – We went down to Florida one year and met up with some friends. When we got to Daytona, we were walking around and Dale was signing autographs. When Dale saw me, he almost went over the table to see me. I was glad he remembered me. Another time, Gary and Billy (sons) went down to Dover for a race. We had it all set up for them with pit passes. They went in the pits and over to Dale’s pit stall. When Dale came off the track, he spotted them. Dale got out of his car and the three of them went walking. That was it for practice that day. So yes. He remembered us for sure.

KM – Now the following year, you brought Alan Kulwicki up to race.

E – I tried to get Earnhardt back, but he had a commitment with Chevrolet. They were just bringing the Lumina out, and he had to go testing. So I had to find someone else. Alan was an up and coming name at the time so I got him. He was a great guy. Quiet, serious, very concerned about setting up the car. When I picked him up at the airport, I asked him “what would you like to do first Alan?”   He said, “I’d like to see the car, and try it out“. And he did. But during the race, he followed Gary (McLean) most of the race. Every move Gary made, Alan would make.  

KM – Who’s car did he drive?

E – He drove Les Lamb’s Ford. Les painted it all up for him. Looked great.  But Alan was all business. We went to Rockingham one year after that, and all the cars were lined up on pit road. Alan was in his pit stall with the hood up working on it, all by himself. That’s the way he was.

KM – You eventually sold the track in 1994. I didn’t realize you had it for sale before that?

E – We had it 30 years and that was enough. Around that time, I spent a whole day in a meeting with Herman Berry Sr. and Herman Jr. They wanted to buy the track, but I could tell as the meeting went on, they were having second thoughts. They had their lawyer with them at the meeting, and finally, they said: “Let’s continue this tomorrow.” On the way home, I phoned Winona and she said: “Pat Rodgers has been calling here a few times wanting to buy the track”. I said, “Is that right?” So I phoned Pat up, and we had a meeting and we made the deal right then.   I called Herman Sr. up and said: “Herman, I sold the race track”. Herman said, “oh thank god!”. He really didn’t want to buy the track anyway.

KM – Did Pat take it over right away?

E – We stayed on for the last few races at the end of the season so he could see how it was done. He had his own ideas too. But one of the main reasons we wanted to sell the track was because of my health. I had been sick for quite a while, and my doctor told me I had to get rid of the track. The stress of running the track wasn’t good for me at the time.

KM – You guys ran the Atlantic Motel after that, didn’t you?

E – Ronnie O’Blenis called us up one day after we sold the track. He said, “I just left LaHankie’s and they’re looking for someone to take over the Atlantic Motel.” Ronnie said, “I told them I have the ideal people to take it over and rent it.” At the time, there was no one running it. In the past, they never got much of a crowd there. Not sure why. Anyway, we took it over. The first night we opened, we filled the place. I was in Moncton earlier that day and a guy told me there’s a truck show in town and every room in the city is booked. I got back to the motel and told Winona “we got to get all the rooms ready, there’s a truck show in town”. Some of the rooms weren’t quite fixed up enough to rent out.    Anyway, we ran that motel for 10 years and did well. 

KM – In 2001 you were inducted into the Canadian Motorsports Hall Of Fame.

E – That was a surprise. They inducted me as a promotor, which was a tremendous honor. It was the same year as Junior Hanley got inducted. It was funny though. Junior is such a quiet guy. He went up to the podium before I did, and he talked a lot that night. So when it was my turn to go up, I said to myself “I have to break the ice here”. So I got up to the podium and said: “I’ve never heard Junior Hanley talk so much”.  And the crowd started laughing. Junior came up to me after the induction and grabbed my hand and shook it. We had a good chat after that. 

KM – Junior ran your track quite a bit back in the day?

E – The first time I met him, he was running out of Halifax. He had this car he just finished building. It was the worst looking thing you’d ever see.  It was like a square box. He said to me “the hood flew up on the way here, so I got no hood to put on”. He had a little piece of plexiglass for a windshield. But boy would it go. I don’t think he got very far in the race though before he broke down. But the next time he came up, he won the International. He was very good, even back then. In 1974,  he and Biederman came down to run the International. Biederman was leading the race, and Junior was second. But Junior was blocking Frank Fraser who was in third. Fraser was all over him. Junior wouldn’t let him go by. The crowd was going crazy. I was standing on the starter’s stand with Ken Brace. We were just about to give Junior the black flag to get him off the track or to move over. All of a sudden, Hanley threw a block on Fraser by the pit entrance and Fraser landed right on top of him.  Frank had enough. So the caution came out. Biederman, who was leading at the time, gets out of his car under caution starts strutting up to the scene. He was getting in the middle of the cleanup, shooting his mouth off and arguing and pushing Fraser. He shouldn’t even have gotten out of his car, let alone walk up to the wreck. Everyone was shouting and arguing and I ended up disqualifying both Hanley and Biederman. But looking back, I should never have done that. It took away from the rest of the race. I should’ve put all three guys to the back of the pack. That’s one decision I made at the track that I regretted.  Everyone thought I made the right call, but it really took away from the race. Biederman and Hanley were mad at me. I was always confident with my decisions at the race track, but that was one time when I felt I made the wrong call. 

KM – This was back when Hanley and Biederman were friends?

E – That particular year they were buddies. They were going to run all the big races and split the money. I had it all lined up for them that year. They were going to run Hammond River, Brookside, Miramichi, the Nova Scotia tracks, and of course the International at River Glade Speedway. Even after I disqualified them, they calmed down and I paid them their tow money. There were no hard feelings afterward.

KM – Everyone has a Don Biederman story. You must have many?

E – We had lots of arguments over the years. There was always some sort of disagreement with him. Every time he came to race there was something he didn’t like. But that was Don and I expected that. One time he stopped at our place in the winter. It was snowing so bad that he couldn’t get in the driveway so he parked on the side of the road.   He was hauling a stock car down to Nova Scotia in an enclosed trailer and was on his way back to Ontario. He came in and had supper and had a good chat. We were sitting in the kitchen and just happened to look out the front window. There was a car stopped by his truck and trailer on the highway. A bunch of guys were looking over his trailer. Don had borrowed it from someone in Ontario to haul the stock car down to Halifax. So he went out to see what they wanted. One guy said “that’s my trailer” and he called the RCMP.  Don said, “how do you know it’s your trailer?” The guy said “there’s a serial number down on the frame. I can read it off to let you know it’s my trailer”. Sure enough, it was his.  Someone had stolen it in Ontario from this guy. And that other guy lent it to Biederman. They towed the trailer away. Biederman went back to Ontario without a trailer. He told the RCMP who he borrowed it from. Don wasn’t in any trouble. I think he was just as happy he didn’t have to tow it back home. 

KM – When MASCAR started, you were one of the original tracks to host them. You were also one of the original organizers?

E – Back then, we were racing with about 10 cars every week at River Glade Speedway. I was paying them like $150 to win the feature. It wasn’t fair to those guys but that’s all I could give them with the small car count. I said “You guys have to do something. I know you should be getting more money than that to win, but I can’t afford to give you more”. This was right around the time I was thinking of the Dukes Of Hazard class, and I thought to myself “if I can get rid of these fellas, I can get this cheaper class going”. So we had several meetings on the picnic table in my barn. I said “why don’t you guys start up a club and get all the modifieds or late models in the Maritimes together. I’ll help you do it.” Adelard and Audrey Cormier were going to head it up. They got everyone involved. Jim Hallahan was looking after the Nova Scotia guys. Anyway, they got together and formed MASCAR. I was also running Riverside at the time, and I had them there a lot, as well as River Glade. I had a few annual races on my schedule that were always popular. The Canada Day 100,  Eastern 75 and of course the International. I made them all MASCAR races to help support the series. So that’s how it all got started.

KM – Tell me about the Maritime Motorsports Hall Of Fame and Museum. 

E – We thought we were retired when we took over the Atlantic Motel after we sold the track. Then we got rid of that and said: “ok, now that’s it, we’re retired now”. Then the Museum and Hall Of Fame came about.   Blane Page from Halifax started the ball rolling on that. He wanted to have a maritime stock car museum. He came to me and asked if I could look after the New Brunswick side of it. I said, “yes, I’ll help out.” Around that time, Blane also organized a “roast” for Scott Fraser in Halifax. We were at that as well, and then we had another meeting at the Atlantic Motel up here. I said to Blane, “the only way to do this right is to have a president, and vice president and a treasurer.  ou have to account for everything and do it properly. It can’t be a one-man show. So they elected me as president. We had a really good turnout at those meetings too. We had people elected in each province. We even had a lawyer there to advise us. So Blane wanted to call it the ‘Stock Car Hall Of Fame’, but we wanted to include all forms of maritime racing so we ended up with the Maritime Motorsports Hall Of Fame.  

KM – What about the location?  Why was it built in Petitcodiac?

E –  Blane was trying to find a building or a place to have the museum in Nova Scotia, but he couldn’t find one. That’s when we got this property in Petitcodiac. We applied to the government for a $2 million grant for a 2 story building. This is the only location we could get for nothing. We went to Salisbury first, and they wouldn’t even talk to us. Then we met with the Town Of Petitcodiac, and things were looking good. After we had those meetings with Petiticodiac, then Moncton wanted us.   Initially, Petitcodiac wanted to give us a piece of land down the road.  But we said, “no, we want to be out front and visible”. So they gave us this piece of land. They still own the land though. But the Town of Petitcodiac helped us tremendously. We raised over $100 thousand ourselves. We went to an awful lot of meetings back then. When you first approach the government, they just want you to go away. But you have to stick with it and be persistent and be determined. And you have to have a plan that’s reasonable. There were a lot of people who said it won’t last, but we’re still here.

KM – I remember you telling about Hanley stopping in to see the museum.

E – Junior was here when we inducted him into the Hall of Fame. He came into the building and took a tour. He really enjoyed it.  He threw some money on the desk and said “ I love it. Use that money any way you want”.

KM – Tell me about inductions? How do people get inducted into the Hall of Fame?

E – There’s a nomination form on the website, and here at the museum.  Fans can nominate who they think is deserving. There’s an awful lot of people out there who have done a lot in motorsports and deserved to be inducted. We actually had induction ceremonies before we had the building built. The first one was in 2006. We talked about having a building then, and we opened this building in 2009.  2019 is our 10^th  anniversary and we’d like to do something special.

KM – You’ve done a lot in racing and seen a lot too. If you had a race track today, what would you do to try and make it successful?

E – I don’t go to race tracks like I used to, but I’ll tell you some things that worked for me over the years. I would try and get my front gate down to a reasonable price. A price where people could afford to come in. I’d also want a class of affordable cars. They’re just cheaper for people to build. The Sportsman class has gone right out of sight. I’d also look at the street stocks to see how bad they’ve gotten. I know they’re getting out of hand. I think the street stocks would be my priority. See what I could do with them and try to keep them as close to stock as I could. I also liked to get as many of the local people and businesses involved as I could. The more local companies you can get involved, the better for the track. I’d get businesses to come out to the track, and put on a display of their goods. The more the merrier. Even if you don’t make any money from them, it still looks impressive. But the price of race cars has gone crazy. We can’t pay the drivers anywhere near what they should be getting to compensate them for their costs. It’s hardly enough for gas money. Back in the day, we’d pay tow money to drivers from Miramichi, Nova Scotia, Fredericton, just to get them here. And they’d bring their own fans too which benefited us.

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